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Matt and Sean talk about monsters of our own making in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’, season 3 episode 3, “Shuttle to Kenfori” and what holo pursuits look like in episode 4, “A Space Adventure Hour.” Is the show a biting good time or just “holo”?
Matt and Sean talk about monsters of our own making in Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’, season 3 episode 3, “Shuttle to Kenfori” and what holo pursuits look like in episode 4, “A Space Adventure Hour.” Is the show a biting good time or just “holo”?
- (00:00) - - Intro
- (02:36) - - Viewer Feedback
- (07:24) - - Today's Episodes
- (10:10) - - This Time in History
- (13:35) - - 1st Episode Discussion
- (31:40) - - 2nd Episode Discussion
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Creators and Guests
What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
Sean Ferrell: In this episode of Trek in Time, we're playing catch up. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Trek in Time. This is, of course, the podcast that takes a look at Star Trek, all of Star Trek in chronological Stardate order. We've worked our way through Enterprise, Discovery, the original series partway. And then we took a pause and backed up to jump into the newest season of Strange New Worlds. We talked about the previous episodes of Strange New Worlds, but now that we're in season three, we're taking a look at those as well. And we're also taking a look at the world at the time of original broadcast, which was in certain ways more challenging and more interesting when you're talking about things like the Original Series, what was the late 1960s like, what did they think about the TED Offensive that week on Star Trek? And then, of course, we're talking about Strange New Worlds, which these episodes are literally dropping right now. So we're talking about things like what's the number one streaming song today? Yes, today. So today we will be taking a look at two episodes. That's the catch up component, right, Matt? Where we are trying to catch up to the episodes that are being dropped into the streaming services in real time. So we will be talking about episodes number 23 and 24 overall. So third and fourth of the third season, we are talking about Shuttle to Kenfori and a Space Adventure Hour. And who are we? I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some sci fi. I write some stuff for kids. And with me, as always, is my brother Matt. He is that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact in our lives. And Matt, how are you today? How did you feel about having to sit down and watch two episodes of Strange New Worlds for this conversation?
Matt Ferrell: I was more than happy to do it, Sean. As I've said before, I got my little home theater set up and this show is beautiful to watch. I was more than happy to turn it on and watch two episodes this week, on top of which we already talked about on Still to be Determined, I had my second shingles vaccine shot. And so when I was sick, completely laid up, this is one of the things I watch. So in the second episode, if my opinion sounds a little maybe tainted or off, just keep that in mind. I had a fever from my shingles vaccine.
Sean Ferrell: Thank you for that reminder. So on we go now into taking a look at these episodes, but we always like to hear your comments on our previous episode before we jump into the new ones. So, Matt, what have you found in the mailbag for us this week?
Matt Ferrell: Well, from Wedding Bell Blues, which was episode two of season three that we talked about, we had a comment from Jason Dumb, who wrote. With just a 10 episode season, I'd prefer fewer jokey episodes. I think they should dispense with Q in New Trek. It was a fun episode, but kind of cast Chapel in a poor light, in my opinion. And this kind of like, is a similar reaction to what I've been having. It's like you've got 10 episodes. Choose wisely because you don't have a lot of time to kind of goof off. Where Next Generation, you were doing 26 episodes or 24 episodes. Yeah. Okay, so you have, you know, Troy's mom come on board and you have a goofy episode with some Ferengi. It's like, okay, that's one of 26. It's okay, fine. But here, you gotta prune it a little bit. And I find it very timely because now that we're four episodes in, not to give anything away, Sean, we basically have two serious episodes and two kind of jokey episodes. And I'm like, these guys, you're choosing poorly. 50% jokey episodes is not a good track record. Back it off a little bit, guys.
Sean Ferrell: We'll get into that in a minute.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, we also had PaleGhost69 chiming in. Also, with John de Lancie being the parent, would that mean Trelane is the child Q from Voyager? They don't experience time like we do, so it's possible he was playing in past. I completely forgot.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: About that.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. There's also. I liked. One of the things about the Q that is fun is that there are no rules.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: So it could be like I found myself thinking, okay, you have a child Q whose parent Q shows up and reprimands them, and eventually that Q grows up, becomes more sophisticated. So the child grows up, becomes more sophisticated, and then just begins to emulate its parent. And so takes on some of the qualities and traits of the parent, but still has such a fascination with humans that it can't help but show up and find Jean Luc Picard to mess around with. And instead of looking at humans as playthings, more of a. Well, can they be actual compatriots? So, yeah, it's fun to think about the Q as super malleable when it comes to storytelling.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Then Dan Sims started a thread. I'm not going to read the whole thread, but the thread is very funny. Sad for us that Matt sings so well they have to cut his performance every week due to copyright claims.
Sean Ferrell: That's right.
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell: Yep.
Matt Ferrell: It's a constant struggle.
Sean Ferrell: Nail on the head, right on the nose. You. You. You figured it out all this time. For anybody who's been wondering why Matt's beautiful singing voice is not shared more widely, it is exactly that. Copyright claims.
Matt Ferrell: That's right.
Sean Ferrell: Thank you for that.
Matt Ferrell: And then for wrong answers only, even though I think you forgot to ask for wrong answers only last week because Mark Loveless wrote. Not asked for, but here you go. Plot of Shuttle to Kenfori. Uhura invents a new type of dance called a shuttle, where you shake your hips provocatively and back into your partner. Basically what Uhura refers to as parking the shuttle. She means it as a joke, but after several crew members film her doing this and post it on StarTikTok, it goes viral across the Federation. She's invited to do it live on Ken Kenfori's trash talk show, Kenfori, but is so humiliated she throws herself into more tech books. The first one being all about advanced communications. Then the plot of A Space Adventure Hour. After Scott and Number One come up with what they think is a fun game they call Space Adventure Hour, they can't get anyone to play it, mainly because it contains lessons to teach crew members about Starfleet protocols. Ortegas humors them and decides to play it, but gets pissed off during the roleplaying game, when Scott and Number One imitate a Gorn. She punches both of them in the throat, earning herself a night in the brig. Shaken, Scott and Number One permanently retire the game.
Sean Ferrell: That could almost be an episode.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, it could be.
Sean Ferrell: Once again, Mark lands in two camps at once. One is like, this is not something we should be talking about. And one is, this could be an episode.
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell: So thank you so much, Mark. Now, that noise you hear in the background, those flashing lights, that isn't me getting excited about talking about two episodes at once. That is in fact the Read alert, which means it's totally time for Matt to tackle two descriptions. These have both been lovingly donated to the podcast by Chrome's AI. Take it away, Matt.
Matt Ferrell: Okay, so for the first episode, Captain Pike and Dr. M'Benga embark on a dangerous off the books mission to a forbidden planet in Klingon space, Kenfori, to retrieve a rare flower needed to cure Captain Batel's Gorn infection. The planet, once a Federation research outpost, is now overrun with creatures resulting from a chemical agent, essentially creating a zombie apocalypse. M'Benga's past also resurfaces during the mission, adding another layer of complexity. Hate to say this, Sean, but Google's AI summary is actually pretty good.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, all right.
Matt Ferrell: Better than Wikipedia. Sorry, guys.
Sean Ferrell: Well, unlike Wikipedia, I mean, you hate to throw this kind of shade, but the large language model of the AI actually knows how language works. Yes, that's largely because it was stolen. Anyway.
Matt Ferrell: Neither here nor there, Sean. Okay, second episode, Laan Noonien-Singh tests a prototype holodeck while the Enterprise studies a neutron star. The holodeck malfunctions, trapping La'an in a murder mystery set in a 1960s style world. And the malfunction begins to impact the ship's systems, putting the crew at risk. La'an must solve the mystery to restore power and save the Enterprise. Again, not a bad summary.
Sean Ferrell: Pretty good. Pretty good job. So, episodes number 23 and 24 of Strange New Worlds, Shuttle to Kenfori, directed by Dan Liu, written by Onitra Johnson and Bill Wolkoff, and originally dropped into the Paramount streaming service on July 24, 2025. And episode 24, A Space Adventure Hour, directed by. What's that name? A Jonathan Frakes. Wonder what he's like.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: Written by Dana Horgan and Kathryn Lyn, originally dropped in the streaming service on July 31, 2025. The series is of course created by Akiva Goldsman, Alex Kurtzman and Jenny Lumet, based on Star Trek by Gene Roddenberry. Starring Anson Mount, Ethan Peck, Jess Bush, Christina Chong, Celia Rose Gooding, Melissa Navia, Babs Olusanmokun, Rebecca Romijn and Martin Quinn. And as far as what the world was like at the time of original, not broadcast, stream. Well, we're using today, so you'll be hearing this in the future. So today for you will not be today for us, but today for us is. Is today. But even today for us is not the today that these episodes dropped. But we're just using this as a kind of like a pin. So we're just. This is a placeholder to give a sense for future viewers who may be even further forward than you are, where you will be when this drops. Anyway, this is what the world was like on August 3rd, 2025. The number one streaming song. I don't have to tell you this, Matt. You know this already. Ring Ring Ring by Tyler, the Creator. Take it away, Matt. Fantastic as always. And as mentioned in the comments, we weren't able to share that with you because of copyright claims. Sorry, everybody. And at the movies, the number one film this week yet again, the Fantastic Four First Steps is having a strong performance with a additional 40 million. And some additional movies that are out right now that are performing very well include Bad Guys 2. The animated film sequel about effectively cartoon villains who are operating as good guys has opened with 22 million this weekend. And the Naked Gun reboot starring, I was just about to say Leslie Nielsen. That's not right here. We're in a very different era now, Matt, where we get the gentleman from Taken and say, remember when he said he had a particular set of skills? Let's see if one of those is comedy.
Naked Gun has opened with 16 million. And on television, some of the most streamed programs. We've talked about Untamed on Netflix for the past two weeks. It continues to be number one in the streamed programs in the US but also among the top shows are the Hunting Wives, which is a show about a wealthy socialites magnetic orbit with a clique of other wealthy women is at number two. And number three is Ballard Season one, which is featuring Maggie Q in a sibling series to Bosch. So fans of the Bosch series apparently are jumping right into a spinoff show to keep the vein of that type of storytelling going.
Matt Ferrell: Sidestep on that, Sean. My wife and I have been watching Bosch. We're three seasons in. It's a great show. Yeah, it's probably one of the best, I would call it. It's a fantastic dad show.
Sean Ferrell: Yes, I've heard it referred to as a dad show many, many times.
Matt Ferrell: It's good.
Sean Ferrell: And finally in the headlines today on August 3, 2025, this from the New York Times. Trump's efforts to control information echo an authoritarian playbook. This is an ongoing slow rollout of the recognition that things are not going according to plan here in the United States. On now to our discussion about these two episodes. First, Shuttle to Kenfori. I mean, this hearkens back for me, Matt, to a lot of the conversations we had around Enterprise, which felt like Enterprise defaulted in its first season quite a bit to a let's make space scary, in a kind of what are the tropes of scary stories that we could lean on? And this one falls right into that category with, there have been a number of Star Trek comic books that have leaned into a horror vibe along these lines. But this is the most clearly rendered, oh, these are just straight up zombies that I can recall Star Trek playing with. So on one level, and let's take it like a two part conversation. On one level, this is a zombie movie. This is 28 years later. This is like let's go to this planet because we got a thing. It's a MacGuffin. We got to get to the MacGuffin as quickly as possible. And we've got no animal life whatsoever. How could that possibly be true? And then, oh, it's because we got these zombie people. So as far as a horror story goes, where did this land for you?
Matt Ferrell: Oh, Sean, this was like slam dunk for me. It's like this, to me, is when Star Trek is firing on all cylinders, is where they play with genres. They have a potpourri of choices. And they can be like, oh, we'll do little aliens. Oh, we'll do a little zombie movie. Or we can do a detective story. We can do. They play around with genres and they have fun with it. And this one, to me felt like that to me, it was a very fun take on a Star Trek zombie movie. And it was creepy and it had. It did things that I haven't seen done before. Like, I loved that whole aspect. The mystery of, like, there is no animal life on this planet. How. What? How? It's like, oh, well, because the plant life turned into zombies and they're killing all the animals. It's like that, I thought was really clever and a lot of fun. So this, to me, just, like, loved it. I love the concept of what it did.
Sean Ferrell: And as far as the depiction of the zombies themselves, for it leans nicely into what a streaming service allows itself to get away with. I think of the show Evil, which was originally a broadcast show and was great. And then they were like, well, we're gonna move it to the streaming service and it's only gonna be on the streaming service. And then suddenly there was swearing. There was spicy. It got spicy and the horror got more horrific. And it was like, oh, they've just dialed it up from an 8 to a 10. And it felt like this is landing in a very different spot now, even though it's only a couple of notches, this felt to me like that. Because I felt like if this was on broadcast television, the zombies would have been very. I'm going to scare you. But in this, we get a really great moment where the zombies swarm a Klingon and disembowel the gentleman. And we are shown disembowel. We are showing like, get that out of him, because I want to eat that. And I'm just like, but it's.
Matt Ferrell: But it's done. I hate to say this, it's done in a tasteful way, though, Sean. It's not like, yes.
Sean Ferrell: Quite the framing yeah, yeah. I thought that as far as, like, it doesn't reach the level of like, pushing as far as what a full blown zombie film would do, but as far as zombie stuff on tv, it certainly is Walking Dead level of like, we're going to show you some of the gore, we're going to show you some of the blood, we're going to show you these things biting into the necks of victims and we're going to show that Klingon go down. We're going to show the terror on everybody's face. I liked the creep factor vibe of the noises that they kept hearing. They knew how to do the drip, drip, drip of building the tension. And you get some nice moments in. And it harkens back for me to like the vibe of when you let the characters be true in their fear of who they are as people.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: This did a nice job of showing Pike demonstrating full blown fear.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: M’Benga is a little more capable when it comes to, like, there's a creepy vibe going on and we don't know what's happening. M’Benga is like, look, we don't have a choice.
Matt Ferrell: We gotta go.
Sean Ferrell: We got to go down this hallway. In that one moment where Pike is like, do you think the other passage was this creepy? Like, did we just inadvertently pick the creepier passage? And you get such a nice effect out of something as simple as, okay, let's just turn the lights down and make everybody use a flashlight. Something so creepy about, like, the way a flashlight zone passes over a. Did I see something move? What was that noise? The continual rescanning of like, I. That had to be animal like, yeah, well done. Well done. As far as a creepy amusement park ride, so hats off to them for that. This one also. And tell me if it was different for you. I did not expect this one to dive into the M’Benga/Klingon general murder question mark storyline. I did not expect that to come out in this at all. So when it. It was presented initially as, oh, the Klingons are doing something here where they've been sneaking back to this planet for some reason. And I found myself in my head as the episode was continuing, like, oh, the Klingons have been coming back here and doing some sort of experiments. The Klingons have been coming back here and unleashing something themselves, but that's not it at all. The fact that it is this single Klingon looking to regain honor and she has been slowly stalking M’Benga in order to get to him, I found myself pleasantly surprised. By that in a way that I found really engaging. Like this entire setup of this thing in the past that was such a critical moment of, did he kill the guy intentionally? Did he not? Is he lying to his captain and everybody or not? And then they solve all those questions in this episode while. Yeah. Zombies are running around the background. I thought it worked. I thought these two things, even though they were completely disconnected from each other, I thought they made it work in a really neat way.
Matt Ferrell: No, I thought it worked well because there was a through line between all of it. It's all about ethics.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Like, ethics was the thing that they were hitting on with the A plot and the B plot and all that kind of stuff. So it's like M’Benga admitted to killing the dude.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Not only is that stuff. I'd do it again. He's like, I did it then and I would do it again.
Matt Ferrell: Exactly. So it's like, was he wrong or was he right in what he did? And then the other side of it, which is there's the ethics around what M’Benga. And I'm blanking on her name. The other captain, the love interest, what they're doing with her medically about the Gorn.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: It's like, you're gonna make her a Gorn human hybrid is essentially what they're turning her into to try to save her life. And Pike's making the argument of that's not right. Like, there's gotta be a better way. That's screwed up. That is really screwed up. Is this ethical? Should we be even. Should you be doing this? Why didn't you tell me? It's like, this seems completely inappropriate. So there was this debate around that. So it's like ethics just kept, like, bubbling around everything that was going on here. And then also, like, almost the ethics of, like, doing experimentations with nature.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Science has run amok and basically destroyed this planet.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. They screwed it up.
Matt Ferrell: They destroyed the planet. Yeah. So it's kind of like it's making a statement about that too. So it's like, this is where, for me, Star Trek fires on all cylinders. It's like they created a propulsive story that keeps you engaged. Zombies. And it was like. But they kept dealing with these bubbling, interesting ethical questions. So it's not a bunch of people sitting in a room talking. But you still get that thought provoking aspect to some of the storytelling as well. And I'm with you. I loved the writing around the characters. It's like how the characters react in the moment is so true to those characters, the way M’Benga reacts. He's one of my favorite characters on the show. And the way he reacts. He's just that they set him up as that. He gets shit done.
Sean Ferrell: Everything is Occam's razor with him. He is just like, there's point A and there's point B. And the most direct line is how we have to get there. And he's a badass. And he's a badass. So he's like, you know that he's a badass as well. And so when there's that moment that they get there and Pike is like, I think we're going to have to be ready for anything, and pulls out his phaser and M’Benga pulls out his. I in my head, literally thought, well, Pike will be okay, because M’Benga is there.
Matt Ferrell: No, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: As opposed to when you'd see the original series, they'd beam down and be like, oh, McCoy's gotta get back to the main group. Because unless he's near Kirk and Spock, he's a dead man. And then on this, I'm just like, thank goodness M’Benga is there to protect Pike.
Matt Ferrell: But there was. There's also the fantastic relationship of, between the two of them because they had done who knows how many missions during the Klingon war together.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And there's this unspoken dialogue between the two of them the entire time, especially at the beginning where they're flying down because Pike was the pilot during the war and M’Bengo was a foot soldier during the war. And so it was funny how they're flying in, they're making a reference to. It's like riding a bike. You never kind of forget doing this stuff.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: They're making fun of his flying skills and stuff like that.
Sean Ferrell: It was him throwing up after heavy drink or heavy smoking. It was referred to like he had smoked something the night before and got out of the shuttle and threw up all over the ground. And it was just like.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: It was like old war stories of old vets getting back together and reliving moments of tension and terror with a laugh. Like having to process that to get to that place.
Matt Ferrell: That's the thing we've talked about before, is, like, Pike as a captain is the kind of captain that, like, he's very collegial. He, like. He, like, tries to get his entire crew brainstorming and thinking of things, and then he goes, that's it. Let's go with that one. Yeah, he's very. Or Kirk is very. I'm going to come up with a solution. I'm going to outthink everybody. And the other thing that he does is that he is very sarcastic. He's very funny. He uses humor to defuse situations. And in this episode, he is cracking jokes like that. You just brought up the whole thing of, like, do you think the other hallway was as creepy as that?
Sean Ferrell: You know what I mean?
Matt Ferrell: It's like he's doing jokes like that to diffuse. He's clearly terrified and he's trying to make himself feel better.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And the humor that he's doing. So it's good acting on Anson Mount's behalf. It's really good acting, but it's also really good writing. It's like. It's very true to what the characters are.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Finally, I wanted to speak about the Klingon who was in pursuit her demise. Like, it felt like such a brief and abrupt way to end the tension of that moment. But it felt. It felt compelling in a way that was. Felt very true to Trek. I really liked the fact that without saying a word, she was like. Starts doing the whole thing with the whip and the firing the gun into the air and drawing their attention to her. And that it's M’Benga, not Pike, who understands what's going on and says she's reclaiming honor in the only way she has left because she's not gonna kill me. So, you know, and it's that moment of. Yet again, we see a Klingon who's hoisting themselves on a petard in order to reclaim honor. This is the first time. Correct me if I'm wrong, Matt. Where these Klingons in Strange New Worlds look like they will become the Klingons that we know from starting out.
Matt Ferrell: Thank God.
Sean Ferrell: Star Trek. Star Trek 3. When we see Klingons in pursuit of Kirk in Star Trek 3, they look like these Klingons. And those are the Klingons that continue on into Next Gen. So seeing this here felt like this is the full reset button having been hit. This is. Yep. This is getting back to.
Matt Ferrell: Couldn't have come sooner, Sean. It could have come sooner. It's like, I wish they had done this a long time ago. It's like. You know what I mean? It's like. It's like, thank God they hit that reset button because these are the Klingons that we knew. Not just for, like a season of a show. We're talking decades. And the fact that they threw that out the window with the Klingons they created during Discovery was like, wow, what the hell are you doing? It's like, we're back. So I felt much better about that. The one last thing I want to bring up about this one is the Ortega storyline of how she becomes insubordinate in this episode. I thought was handled well and I thought it was pretty good. And it's that post traumatic stress hitting on her. And we're finally starting to see that come to light. I don't know if you like that, but I thought it was interesting how they were kind of like also kind of pairing M’Benga's ethical quandary. He murdered a dude. And the captain is basically like shoulder shrug about it. And Ortega, she basically just, you know, slightly disobeys an order, does a little finger twitch.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Causes them, you know, all that kind of stuff. And she basically gets reamed.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: By Number One and just like told, you do this again, you're out. Yeah. And it was like a very interesting, like, dichotomy of like, why is it okay for M’Benga to murder a dude? Right. But it's not okay for Ortega to do what she did. I understand Ortega put the entire crew at risk, which is what's the worst part of it. But I thought it was interesting to see the two different. The way they're handled. Number One, handling Ortega and the captain handling M’Benga. Very different ways of handling these ethical dilemmas.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. And I felt like there was a certain amount of balancing lived experience and balancing role in a way that demons like, kind of feeds into what you're talking about. I don't see Pike as thinking of himself as M’Benga's superior.
Matt Ferrell: No.
Sean Ferrell: And he certainly doesn't view himself as M’Benga's mentor. But I feel like Number One was looking at this as this is a teaching moment. And my job in this context is to be the mentor and teacher to somebody who's letting personal experience break through decorum and rank. And that's inappropriate. And it felt like, like I do agree with everything you're saying about there are pieces put on the board that do look the same and yet there is the difference of response. And it does drive an ethical discussion that is very compelling and has. I think there's no solution. There's no end. Like, and that's Y, X. I feel like this is the kind of thing where you could revisit it and rehash it and it would land differently for different viewers as well. So it's a very well rendered and ethically, not fraught, but ethically tense structure that they've created in this episode that I really appreciate it. Finally, one last comment. I loved all the space stuff showing these giant ships in space looking for each other. They spot each other in interesting ways. Look for the electromagnetic field because they used to do that in the war. Like coasting past the Klingon ship. The classic, if anybody looks out a porthole, we're dead. But who looks out portholes? It's really, it's, you know, they, they use view screens that are using telescopic measurements that are then projected onto a screen. And so the Klingons are sitting on their bridge and don't happen to be scanning the right place at the right time to see this giant Federation vessel go by. And also it's framed to be dramatic for us as the viewer. There's no way these vessels passed within that distance of each other. But it's all cool sci fi drama stuff for us to enjoy at home. So I loved all that. I ate all that up on. Now to our discussion about the other episode that we were going to discuss this week.
A Space Adventure Hour, Space Adventure Hour directed by Jonathan Frakes. And if you wanted to see what Jonathan Frakes fingerprints look like, watch this episode. Because to me this was like. I found myself thinking, did Jonathan Frakes come to them and say, this is the kind of episode I want to do? Or did they say, we've got a script and I think Jonathan Frakes would fit this? Because I'm really interested in the origin of this because this to me screamed, should have been a Next Generation episode. Should have been a Next Gen episode. And it wasn't. Only because it wasn't like, how do. Like how do you want to handle this, Matt? I think I know where you're gonna land only because I'm watching your nostrils. Do you want me to give my take on this first and then you can respond?
Matt Ferrell: Okay, give your take.
Sean Ferrell: Let me start with that. I genuinely liked quite a bit of what this episode was doing because I think it was as far as putting together a story, putting together a fun rompish storyline. The acting, the fun that the actors get to have with playing non versions of themselves. I think all of that was really well done. I was thoroughly enjoying the Sci Fi show that they were showing, which looked.
Matt Ferrell: Like the original series.
Sean Ferrell: Such a beautiful homage to the original series, but also felt like it was toying with. I've just recently gotten engaged with the program Blake's 7, which was a sci fi show from the BBC in the 70s. For whatever reason, I never crossed paths with it. And I recently have and I've been watching that and it's effectively a far more serious Doctor Who style sci fi program where it's not time travel and it's not, but it doesn't have any of the super goofy elements of a Doctor who. It is like, here are these characters, they do not like each other. They are a ad hoc crew. It's effectively like a Guardians of the Galaxy vibe. And a lot of the sci fi look of that I feel like was in this as well. So it feels like this is not just an homage to the original series very clearly, but it is also having fun with just the idea of old sci fi in general and just running with that and also looking at Hollywood and the machinery of Hollywood and the machinations of what does a producer have against the agent? What does the agent have against their clients? What do the clients think about each other? Playing with the Shatner-ism by bringing in the actor who's playing the current Kirk and having him do a lovingly rendered parody of William Shatner that I'm like, did anybody go to Shatner and say, just to let you know we're gonna be doing a thing?
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, yeah. When I was watching, I was like, this could be offensive.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, if he's watching it and if nobody gave him a heads up. But there are moments where the performance is literally at moments that's just Kirk. It is Kirk. And so all of that, I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm enjoying all of that. It's well performed, it's well directed, the comedic timing of things is great. As far as a murder mystery within the holodeck, I'm like, if you take out La'an and you put in Data in a Sherlock Holmes outfit, like, yeah, this is as much Star Trek as anything because it's playing with all those elements in a way that felt appropriate and familiar for Trek. And then I couldn't help but think, but why are they doing this? And I just found myself like, I'm like, I get what they're going for and I see how it's landing. And I even enjoyed Scotty trying to keep it all cobbled together. He, for me, was like the biggest element of showing him learning that being the miracle worker doesn't mean he has to work miracles by himself. I thought that was a really surprising character element, that I didn't expect that as it was happening. I was just like, how brilliant is that? That he's this guy who has trouble. They've set up already that he has trouble even deciphering what he himself has done because he's so instinctive in these things and cobbles things together so quickly. And then somebody shows is, how did you do that? He's like, I don't really know. Like, I just kind of made it work, and it's somewhat panic. And so the idea that he would say, I didn't call for help because help is sometimes more problematic. And having to learn the lesson of, like, when you're in the trenches. Here we are. We are connected to each other in a different way, and you need to rely on us, showing him talking to Uhura in the way he did. He's like, hypothetically. And she's just like.
And he's like, did you know I was talking? She's like, I knew from the moment you came to the bridge, like, idiot. Like, I liked all of that, and. And yet I was just like, really? Like, we're gonna pull the holodeck in, and then we're gonna have to create an ending that explains why the holodeck doesn't make any appearance until next generation. So we're going to have to build in the, like, oh, it's technology that's potentially too dangerous. And then Scotty throws in the. Unless you give it its own dedicated power source and computing power, in which case it could be done safely. Like, okay. Like, so. Really? And then for me, the La’an and Spock connection lost what I liked about the introduction of it previously, because I was just like, I love that they've got a platonic relationship, and then that ends and it turns into if that part of it, for me, felt soap opera ish. And I just. It did not land with me in a way that I appreciated. And I found myself thinking, like, what is the. Like, we're now almost halfway through this season. And I'm like, what are they going for? I found myself very confused, to be honest, because, like, when it comes to walk like a Trek and talk like a Trek, they've got it down. And when it comes to. And be pushing envelopes like Trek, they only seem to want to do that, like, 30% of the time.
And the rest of the time, they are saying, like, what if we pulled in Q and what if we pulled in a holodeck? And what if we pulled in a romance? And what? Like.
And I'm finding myself at this point in the season, really kind of scratching my head and saying, like, am I enjoying this? And I didn't expect to be thinking that. So this one did I find myself in a place where we've talked about this before, where you got the scale, like 1 to 10. And this lands at a 5 for me because the things it does well that land. It does really, really well. And the things that didn't land really don't land for me.
You want to do a holodeck story. I feel like there were ways you could have done that by having them go to a planet where somebody has a holodeck. They've done that before, or it's kind of a cheat. But do that again. Go to a planet where they've got this artificial thing and then tell a story that you want to tell. It's a murder mystery. But even down to the La'an tells the holodeck to make a mystery that would be compelling to me. That's literally biting off of the make a mystery that would be hard for Data to complete.
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell: And you, like, okay, you are literally just now retelling a Next Gen story and making the argument that La'an is so brilliant that the only way the holodeck can construct that is to be meta. And I was like, that's where we are now. And I just. It just didn't land in the way that, like the previous episode that we talked about. I'm just like, this feel. This is hitting all these things and it's doing things in a way that I haven't seen before on Trek. And then you go to the next episode and like, you're literally going back to Next Gen in a way that also, like, there's a meta ness to this episode that I actually did really enjoy, because the meta ness is. It's a Gene Roddenberry stand in as the creator of the show.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: Who's trying to shrug off. He doesn't really care, but he cares desperately. And he's been holding on and he's the. The network is effectively saying, well, if you let him go, the show can continue into a second season and if any. And Jonathan Frakes directed this. He saw what happened in Next Gen during season one when Gene Roddenberry was there saying, like, here's how you do Star Trek. And everybody around him was just like, I think we need to move on from him. So, yeah, like, the meta ness in the episode was enjoyable, but was that enough to make it a good episode? So for me, this lands really at a five, where I'm just like, I had fun watching it, but did I want this to be one of the 10 that they tell the story of, as you keep pointing out. Like, they've got 10 episodes and this is one of them. And I'm like, this? Was this one of the ones they should have kept? I don't know.
Matt Ferrell: So your take is very close to my take. There were aspects of this I liked, but I think I'm more negative on it than you are. If I was going to rate it, I'd probably give it a four. I keep bringing this up. You got 10 episodes, and it feels like to me, what they've done is, here's one for you, here's one for me, here's one for you, here's one for me. And the me episodes are the stinkers. And this one, it felt to me, especially the Holodeck stuff, first 20 minutes of the show started to drag for me because I didn't give a crap about what was happening in the mystery. Did not care a lick. There's no mystery that I care about. None of these characters I care about. It just looked like an excuse for the actors to have fun.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And I think the creators of the show missed the boat thinking, viewers will have fun watching this because the actors are having fun. No, no, no, no, no. That's not how you tell good storytelling. You have to tell good story.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Go to the Trek, Next Generation, Moriarty. Make me a mystery that can really stump Data. You get a juicy villain against Data, and you get this really fun dynamic between the two of them. And then Moriarty becoming very quickly aware I'm artificial, I'm in a confine. And then it starts to turn. This really interesting ethical dilemma. And it starts to do this very quickly. Ramps it up, builds tension. And so when they're doing all the stuff on the Holodeck, as a viewer, I'm not compelled to watch it because, oh, aren't these actors having fun? It's more of, oh, no, you're telling an interesting story. First 20 minutes of the show, Sean. There was not anything interesting happening at all. We're watching Anson Mount act like Gene Roddenberry. We're watching all this stuff. The first, actually, the first five minutes, which was just the 1960s show.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: It went on, like, way too long. It's like they should have kept that to half the length. And then the part in the holodeck, they should have set up a more interesting Moriarty like, dynamic, that would have been the foil to La'an.
That could have created a more interesting dynamic, because then it would have been like, oh, I'm watching this because I care about La'an and what's happening here. Get to the point of, oh, the Holodeck’s trapped her, and she could actually get hurt much faster. It's like the fact that they stretched this out, and we were, like, 35 minutes into the episode before anything meaningful starts to happen. My wife and I were watching this. I'm kind of getting achy, kind of feverish from my injection, so take this with a grain of salt, but my wife looked bored out of her gourd, and she likes Star Trek. She likes this stuff. She was bored out of her mind. She looked like. We could stop watching this right now if you wanted to. Not a good sign. So this is where I come back to. The creators of the show are confusing the hell out of me, because they are like, you hit the nail on the head with, they know how to Trek. They can make it Trek. Absolutely. I've seen them do it. Two seasons of this episode, I think they've done it. And the other two, it's like, what are you guys doing? We're now four episodes in. Your hit rate is 50%. That's horrendous. Absolutely horrendous. It's like three of four. Okay, there we go. But, like, the fact that they now have had a second episode that was reaching into the bag of Trek and just rehashing. So, like, the last bad episode was the Q Trelane episode, and now, now they've reached into the bag of the holodeck and to get super nerdy. Sean, why the hell did they make the holodeck look just like the holodeck from Next Generation? Yeah, why would you do it? I was like, this is way, like, what is it, like, 80 years, 100 years? Whatever it is before Next Generation. Why not make the holodeck look like. Think about, like, VR.
Like, the Oculus came out, like, in the early 2000s, and when you use this stuff in your house, you had to set up what they were called lighthouses. You put these little lighthouses in the corners that were basically beaming little lights, and then the headset could use them for positional details. And it was, like, quite a setup you had to do. Now you can get a Quest three from, you know, Meta cameras and shit. There's no lighthouse anymore. You just slap it on your face, and it knows its positioning and stuff. It figures it out on its own from the cameras. It's much more sophisticated than it was just, like, 10 years ago. It's like, why are we not seeing a precursor to the holodeck where it's like the walls are all just like the normal warehouse room. And then on the wall in the grid pattern are like some kind of like lighthousey looking, like machinery that had been positioned all over the room. Instead of the black walls with the yellow lines, it's like, what are you doing? It's like, make this feel like a research and development kit. Don't make this feel like a finished product. And that's where it was kind of like, what, calling for the arch. It was like, are you high? What are you. What are you doing? None of this terminology, none of this vernacular would be part of the system. It's like, this is all brand spanking new stuff.
So it's like it was bananas to me that it felt like they were making a Next Generation episode in this and didn't like, say, what would this tech have been like 100 years earlier?
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. In that zone. In that zone. It's like one of the things about it that stood out to me was this is a smaller ship. Like, where is that room? Like, suddenly you just have, like, this ship has limited space and they have that room.
Matt Ferrell: Like, they could have said, we turn to shuttle bay. We turn a shuttle bay into a temporary test facility.
Sean Ferrell: Right. Or just show the shuttle bay having a temporary structure inside it. That was like.
Matt Ferrell: That's one.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, yeah.
Matt Ferrell: With those like. Like, it's still a grid pattern, like mesh metal girders into like a grid pattern with like little things on the corners and all this stuff. And they walk into that and then it turns it into the. You know, they could have done so many different things to make it feel like it's grounded in reality of the show. Yeah, but it was, for me, it was like as soon as they walked in and it looked like the next gen holodeck, I was immediately ripped out and I was kind of like, oh, really? God, they're just going to rehash old stuff. And that's what the entire episode was. And I was just very. I mean, I might rate this at a three or a four. So it's like before I had said if the worst they do, like with the Trelane one was a five out of ten. We have a really good floor to build on. Yeah, they just busted through that floor and set a new floor. To me, this is like a three or a four. It's like this was just like a complete mess. They made this episode for themselves. They didn't make it for the viewers. It wasn't even good fan service to me. I just thought this episode was a miss completely.
Sean Ferrell: And it's also a strange choice, given what you want to do with a series like this, is continue to build your audience to continue to like. You need to know Star Trek to get the meta of this. Otherwise, if you don't know Star Trek, you are left with, as you point out, an incredibly boring mystery that then leads to the solution being she has a crush on Spock.
Matt Ferrell: Which is very soap opera, by the way.
Sean Ferrell: I agree with you on that very soap opera element. The only thing I will say about the soap opera element is that it feels like a soap opera element. If people disagree with that, jump into the comments and let us know how you felt about all of that. It felt so tacked on and unnecessary, and it doesn't feel like it's doing what Matt and I have talked about previously, how much we enjoy how the this series is reinforming information for those characters in the original series. This doesn't feel like it's doing that in this case. This, like, feels really weird of just like, oh, what if Spock is falling for La'an? Like, really, where did that come from? And another note not to, like, pile on, but one of the biggest things for me that is amiss in this one is the only way it works in the way that they've presented it is through what is effectively a lie to the audience. Spock is on the bridge the entire time.
And we don't know that until the very end when throughout the episode, it is careful camera placement and the depiction of, oh, the danger they're in. This collapsing star is going to create this wave that is going to destroy the Enterprise unless they're able to get away from it in time. And they're having trouble because of the holodeck pulling too much power. And in that moment, you're telling me nobody on that bridge, Captain Pike, or Number One, wouldn't say, Mr. Spock, do you have a solution for us? Like, that wouldn't be said. That wouldn't happen. We wouldn't. You would create more tension within the episode if you showed them talking to Spock and the audience was left wondering, how is he in both places at once. They instead went with the, oh, let's withhold that so that it's a real surprise.
When you hold that surprise, you are forced to lie to your audience. And that's what it felt like in this. It felt like a cheat so that you end up with that. They wanted to be able to have that moment of, oh, I didn't know, but that's not the moment of that storyline. The moment of that storyline is later when La’an goes and is dancing with Spock and says, I knew he wasn't you, because I know the physicality of you. And there was none of that in that hug. Like, that's the moment of, oh, that's how she knew. Not the I didn't know in the holodeck. So it's one of those things where it's a misplaced placement of focus of where the genuine emotional moment rests. And because it's misidentified, it's put them in a position where they lie to the audience for the entire episode. So that we think that who we're looking at is Spock. How much more compelling would it have been to fast forward the murder mystery, to really abbreviate it to within the first act and get the moment of, oh, this is like, something has malfunctioned, and I'm stuck in here. And to have her in that moment with like, well, thank goodness I have you with me to help figure out a way out of this. And then they cut to the bridge, and they show, Spock is on the bridge.
Matt Ferrell: 100% Thank you Sean.
Sean Ferrell: That would have been a better episode.
Matt Ferrell: That's what I'm getting at. It's like, if they had set up in the first act what was actually happening, it would have created tension, so then we suddenly would have cared what's going on in the holodeck, because it's not the mystery that we care about, but they made it the mystery. Yeah, it's like, what? Like, you're doing this. You're doing this for yourselves. You're not doing this for the viewers. Stop kidding yourself. What you just described would have made it for the viewers. We would have been more invested what we were watching.
Sean Ferrell: So a swing and a miss in this one, apparently. And please let us know what you thought about it. Jump into the comments. As you can tell, your comments help us discuss this show. We do love this show. This is.
Matt Ferrell: We do. It's a great show.
Sean Ferrell: And when we have the responses like this, it's not that we think it's a bad program. It's that we. We know how good it can be when it's good. And we just want to make sure that it takes advantage of the brief moments it has, because we keep going back to this. 10 episodes per season. Yeah, 10 episodes. You're gonna have 50 total.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: Let's not squander too many of them with a, let's have an episode about dancing. Next time we're gonna be talking about through the Lens of Time, which when you boil it down, is kind of the entire point of this podcast, isn't it, Matt? Anyways, that's what we'll be talking about next time. If you want to jump into the comments and leave wrong answers only about what that one's about, please do take a shot. And don't forget, while you're leaving a comment or a wrong answer, don't forget to like, don't forget to subscribe. Don't forget to share it with your friends. Those are all very easy ways for you to support us. And if you'd like to support us directly, go to trekintime Show. Click the join button there. Not only does that allow you to throw some coins at our heads, take particular aim at Matt because I feel like I've been getting it a lot lately. And no, like, not only does it allow you to throw coins at our heads, it makes you an Ensign. Which means you'll be signed up for our spin off show Out of Time, in which we talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this program. We usually talk about movies, TV shows, other things we've been enjoying that have a either a sci fi or horror or a fantasy vibe. So we hope you'll be interested in checking that out. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to watch or listen. We'll talk to you next time.